Ambush and AI

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Tripe
Posts: 3
Joined: 17 July 2016, 19:32

Ambush and AI

Postby Tripe » 17 July 2016, 20:37

The ambush mechanic needs to be looked at. I've read all the reasons it might not work and all the excuses to posts regarding the issue, both here and the steam forums. I've found nothing that I hadn't already found out through my own gameplay.

Ambush constantly fails to activate vs AI in a variety of situations. Some I realize are my fault, or in a situation where I had to take an ambush in a bad position, but the majority of them have no excuse.

The worst offender was a situation where I had 3 units all in ambush in a large open area. They were spread out in a triangle with at least a unit circle or two separating them. No other units or obstructions were anywhere close to being in the way. An Ai skaven came through a gap in the fence and continued to walk through the first ambush field, a few feet later and into another ambush field, before running through the third and ultimately running up to attack the middle unit. I believe my favorite possessed now suffers from a broken jaw due to my darksouls inability to detect threats and my possessed ineptness in being able to react when in an ambush stance.

Another example which just happened was, I had a Black Skaven positioned about 3 feet from a wall and 6 to 8 feet from a corner. A globadier in overwatch a few feet behind. No other units where in the area. The enemy Skaven leader came around the corner and was abruptly halted by the globadiers overwatch, but was seemingly immune to the black skavens ambush, as he continued on to walk up and knock the snot out of the defenseless blackskaven. Skreet Fastblade now suffers from tendonitis due to this mishap, and will likely have to be put down.

Yet another example in the same match which I'm not entirely sure about. I had to set my leader to overwatch on a skaven which I couldn't quite reach with a charge. The enemy skaven had been halted by a trap while trying to reach my wounded and engaged unit and was inside of my leaders ambush field. This didn't stop the skaven from walking out of the ambush to engage the wounded unit on his next turn. It's my understanding that ambush should trigger on a unit that is currently inside of the ambush field. The AI does it. I can't recall if I've been in that situation before.

A less frustrating point with ambush is the way the AI can cut a corner in order to walk into a unit set to ambush, but the opposite is not true. Attempting to subvert an AI ambush by cutting a corner will trigger the ambush no matter if you walk right into them. I've attempted this many times and the result is always the same.

It's to the point where I feel it would be wise to abandon using ambush all together in 90% of cases where it would be useful. Taking any other stance and letting the AI charge you at least gives you some defense. I feel like crossing my fingers and holding my breath when I use an ambush. If I had one of those Magister staves with the skulls, I would definitely get up and do a voodoo dance with those skulls bouncing around before every ambush, unfortunately I don't have one.

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Drildgen
Posts: 564
Joined: 07 November 2014, 15:32

Re: Ambush and AI

Postby Drildgen » 18 July 2016, 17:39

This is more of a feedback than a bug report, moving thread :)
Good hunting in the streets of Mordheim!

-Drildgen

Tripe
Posts: 3
Joined: 17 July 2016, 19:32

Re: Ambush and AI

Postby Tripe » 19 July 2016, 17:17

I think AI ignoring fundamental game mechanics would be consider a bug. This isn't feedback about how ambush works. It's criticism about how it doesn't work.

Doesn't matter. I'm sure they're aware of the issues with it. Makes me wonder why I bother to report "Bugs".

Edit: How is this not a bug? Giving detailed descriptions of how things don't work. You want diagrams? I was going to make diagrams! How bout a youtube montage? If the reason for it being feedback is that they're aware of the problems with it and have no plans to do anything about it then say so.

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Drildgen
Posts: 564
Joined: 07 November 2014, 15:32

Re: Ambush and AI

Postby Drildgen » 20 July 2016, 13:25

Greetings Tripe,

I think we have a little misunderstanding here, lemme clarify, if I may... Actually, expressing your opinion about how things should work along with anecdotal situations is the exact description of what a good feedback is, and we appreciate it!

If you want to report a bug, here's a good article containing great guidelines about how to report a bug for a public software and furthermore oriented for video games. http://www.andrewbrettwatson.com/index. ... port-a-bug

Now am I saying that the situations you have encountered are bug-free? No. Am I saying that everyone in this forums follow the guideline I just posted rigorously? No. What I am saying here is that the form and the content of your post is a lot more of the feedback kind rather than an actual bug report.

Also, including screenshots of the bug, output logs, combat logs and dxdiags are incredibly helpful files that will help us to reproduce your issue internally for an easy fix afterwards.

Lastly, I apologize for the lack of clarifications when I first moved your post to this section. I'll be more transparent right away if it happens again.
Good hunting in the streets of Mordheim!

-Drildgen

Tripe
Posts: 3
Joined: 17 July 2016, 19:32

Re: Ambush and AI

Postby Tripe » 21 July 2016, 18:01

I get carried away sometimes. Sorry about that. I was trying to have a bit of fun with my "bug report".

I wrote abut this issue briefly during early access last year. At the time there were other posts and threads on the subject, and there still are. I also realize it has been addressed a time or two.

I feel the problems with it aren't always obvious. I'm always questioning if the conditions were just perfect for an ambush to activate. Was there another unit circle in the way? Did the enemy charge, and was he close enough to charge without triggering the ambush? Were there any other obstructions that would prevent the unit from ambushing? I go through a long check list and think far too long about it before even placing a unit in ambush. I often excuse things like this because I'm not quite sure everything was perfect. I'll usually overlook these things and work with what the game gives me.

Conversely, there are times that you can say with a relative degree of certainty, something isn't right. The AI changes course in the middle of two unobstructed ambush fields for example. An enemy unit walks around an ambush unit to attack another unit. Yesterday, I watched an enemy flee from a failed all-alone check, walk into an ambush field and out the other side. Fleeing enemies should be ambushed correct? I swear I've seen it before. After that, I'm not so sure. The ways in which I see it fail to activate are just so varied, it's hard to guess what the problem is. Unfortunately, due to the random nature of the game, it's impossible to give one specific situation that is 100% reproducible without a save game feature. It seems to be most reliable when the AI is targeting the unit that is in ambush, but even then there are failures that I can't explain away.

As long as this is feedback, I do love the game. Of note, the globadier might be my favorite unit. I love the character and skill design. I hate to say it, but he might be a bit too versatile. I try to fit one into both my Skaven and Possessed warbands, sometimes two. My latest one has been stealing "most valuable warrior" for the last three straight games, even when forced to play support at times.


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