Mordheim Feedback

Share your thoughts and ideas about Mordheim: City of the Damned
Eisenprinz

Mordheim Feedback

Postby Eisenprinz » 07 July 2016, 10:59

I thought I'd share my thoughts on your game.

The system you came up with for Mordheim has way too much clutter. While it's nice to have options, it's pointless if all they boil down to is to stack tiny stat increases/decreases. I can only assume that the reasoning behind it was to offer a wide variety of options and make character development seem complex but to keep numbers small in order not to create too many balance issues. I don't understand why you didn't just keep the tabletop rules.

The action point and movement systems are another matter. Units can do way too much in a single turn. This drags out the game and results in players having to wait half of the time. Add to that the fact that you can move freely (which creates it's own annoyances like getting stuck on the environment) and even retrack your steps as much as you like, this becomes a very time consuming and frustrating affair.

I assume that is the reason why this game isn't primarily multiplayer, which it should have been. As has been mentioned quite often, the AI is not exactly smart. It charges into objects and gets stuck, doesn't recognize when it's being attacked by ranged combat and just remains stationary, trying to ambush, until getting killed and so on. The AI simply cannot match a human opponent and to sidestep this, I have the feeling that very little (aside from abusing how stupid the AI is) actually matters in terms of progression as it's always tiny bonuses and maluses being stacked against each other and units trading RNG-heavy blows with each other until one of them runs out of health points.

Then there's the optional goals. The only one that actually feels beneficial is the wyrdstone hunt, but it's also the most annoying one because there are so many you need to gather and every time you do you have to watch a pick-up animation and the buff or debuff animation after the wyrdstone effect. When they are not piled on a few convenient stacks you may as well just rush to kill the enemy, because trying to get them all is just a hassle. It would've been better if there were only like 5 or so.

Overall matches take way too long considering they are only 1vs1. The complete lack of matches between several warbands is another disappointment but I can imagine that these would've been a mess that takes even longer and has the AI act even more clueless.

One of my personal biggest gripes though is that the game lacks personality.
The locations are all very samey and uninteresting to the point where they feel randomely generated. They were also spaced out too far, which makes getting anywhere a chore unless everything conveniently spawns close to each other. I would've preferred more verticality instead.

Visually they game is quite unimpressive too and I'm not talking about graphical fidelity but design.
It has a very subdued colour palette and with all the dark and mirky lightning it's sometimes hard to see what is going on.

Aside from the combat animations, units only have two animations for abilities. Buff and debuff.
The fact that the units don't have voices seriously prevents them to feel alive rather than cannon fodder. There was so much potential with abilities like Insult or Taunt. Instead you have these long rambling narration parts by the dramatis personae, which are rarely very interesting. The only one I enjoyed was the skaven one. It would have immensely improved the games overall lifeless feeling if there had been some banter. Maybe even a briefing between your warband leader and non-player characters, like you have in Warhammer Dark Omen. There is nothing that makes me want to invest myself in the game emotionally.

I know this feedback looks overly negative, but I want to give you guys some honest criticism, because I really want to like this game,
but sadly for every thing I like there are two or three that really annoy me.

Eisenprinz

Re: Mordheim Feedback

Postby Eisenprinz » 06 November 2016, 12:01

As an addition, I think that the game ended up too much like Valkyria Chronicles,
but sadly doesn't improve on it's weaknesses and actually makes some of them even worse.

And as I anticipated, for the Undead warband you went yet again with a generic cackling villainess for the dramatis personae, which is disappointing.

I really don't want to trample your hard work but there is just so much wasted potential, it's a real shame.

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Jisur
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Joined: 28 October 2015, 18:02

Re: Mordheim Feedback

Postby Jisur » 06 November 2016, 13:15

I thought I'd share my thoughts on your game.

The system you came up with for Mordheim has way too much clutter. While it's nice to have options, it's pointless if all they boil down to is to stack tiny stat increases/decreases. I can only assume that the reasoning behind it was to offer a wide variety of options and make character development seem complex but to keep numbers small in order not to create too many balance issues. I don't understand why you didn't just keep the tabletop rules.
The TT mordheim is very fun and I am very sad I didn't get to experience it as much as I would had like, living in small town and all that. But I would imagine as RNG heavy and random that system was people would go haywire in rage and frustration. For example always getting Initiative improvment instead of Str, Tough or even extra attack.
Reading the forums occationally, there is enough whine already, although I ignore it al the same...
The action point and movement systems are another matter. Units can do way too much in a single turn. This drags out the game and results in players having to wait half of the time. Add to that the fact that you can move freely (which creates it's own annoyances like getting stuck on the environment) and even retrack your steps as much as you like, this becomes a very time consuming and frustrating affair.

I assume that is the reason why this game isn't primarily multiplayer, which it should have been. As has been mentioned quite often, the AI is not exactly smart. It charges into objects and gets stuck, doesn't recognize when it's being attacked by ranged combat and just remains stationary, trying to ambush, until getting killed and so on. The AI simply cannot match a human opponent and to sidestep this, I have the feeling that very little (aside from abusing how stupid the AI is) actually matters in terms of progression as it's always tiny bonuses and maluses being stacked against each other and units trading RNG-heavy blows with each other until one of them runs out of health points.
The offencive points and Strategy points I quite like. There is how ever in my opinion a big gap in warbands strength when units get to rank 3 and recive extra OP. Heros can make 3 attacks instead of two and hench men 2 instead of 1. That is with one hander.
In PvP I find this difference to be allot. Much more than between rank 3 and 4 etc.

The retracking of steps is adjustable in PVP and I belive most people have this at 1 which is the way it should be in my opinion :) It would be nice if they added option for backtracking in campaign as well.

The AI can ofcourse be easily manipulated once you learn how it plays. And they try to make it more difficult by giving it % more damage and wounds which increeses with difficulty. I often beat deadly no problem though with good warband but then once in a while I get ambushed or sneak attacked and if I dont get totally wrecked then atleast I suffer quite a few out of action.

Then there's the optional goals. The only one that actually feels beneficial is the wyrdstone hunt, but it's also the most annoying one because there are so many you need to gather and every time you do you have to watch a pick-up animation and the buff or debuff animation after the wyrdstone effect. When they are not piled on a few convenient stacks you may as well just rush to kill the enemy, because trying to get them all is just a hassle. It would've been better if there were only like 5 or so.
I disagree on the wyrdstone objective. It should be difficult in my opinion but in most of the time it is not I find. You should always be trying to collect wyrdstone anyway and having this reward is just pure bonus.
The Marked for death is fun as well and I find that working as intendead. I undestand the common complaint that you kill the last guy you need but can't loot him for number of reasons and then the other team routs :) Maybe skipping these the looting part would solve that?
The break their will is insainly hard and I have had only few scenarios in which I saw a slight possibilty in achiving that. And in those few I have like 15% succsess rate :) (mostly with skaven)
Overall matches take way too long considering they are only 1vs1. The complete lack of matches between several warbands is another disappointment but I can imagine that these would've been a mess that takes even longer and has the AI act even more clueless.

One of my personal biggest gripes though is that the game lacks personality.
The locations are all very samey and uninteresting to the point where they feel randomely generated. They were also spaced out too far, which makes getting anywhere a chore unless everything conveniently spawns close to each other. I would've preferred more verticality instead.
Matches for me take between 15 minutes to 30 minutes, maybe 45 in extreem cases. (Not talking about story missions of course). I find that quite alright. The loading times are improved and they added accelerate the ai turn which I applaud.

The spawns are random as they should be in my opinion. I would actually like if it would be more of the types where you are automatically deployed :)
Visually they game is quite unimpressive too and I'm not talking about graphical fidelity but design.
It has a very subdued colour palette and with all the dark and mirky lightning it's sometimes hard to see what is going on.

Aside from the combat animations, units only have two animations for abilities. Buff and debuff.
The fact that the units don't have voices seriously prevents them to feel alive rather than cannon fodder. There was so much potential with abilities like Insult or Taunt. Instead you have these long rambling narration parts by the dramatis personae, which are rarely very interesting. The only one I enjoyed was the skaven one. It would have immensely improved the games overall lifeless feeling if there had been some banter. Maybe even a briefing between your warband leader and non-player characters, like you have in Warhammer Dark Omen. There is nothing that makes me want to invest myself in the game emotionally.

I know this feedback looks overly negative, but I want to give you guys some honest criticism, because I really want to like this game,
but sadly for every thing I like there are two or three that really annoy me.
I am not an expert on graphic and I always valued gameplay far over graphics. You maybe right about the color palette I had not thought about it but now that you say it :) Arguably the chaos and destruction of Mordheim would not fit to have bright and shiny colors...
What I find missing is more character customization because I love spending time on tweeking the looks and it makes me care more for my characters. But that takes immense work and as the team is limited in manpower they seem to be focusing now on making more warbands for the game.

I can't say that by time you start to get a bit tired of the animation. Ambushing quite often in each battle. Atleast they are short :) Adding voices for each warrior would be interesting. Although I played X-com 2 and after a while the voices started to become dull.

I respect your views of the game and I found it interesting read. But it simply seems not to be your type of game, all the changes they would have to make, would probably be easier to start a new one from the scratch?


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