First impression feedback from an avid gamer.

Share your thoughts and ideas about Mordheim: City of the Damned
El_honeste
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Joined: 29 February 2016, 20:31

First impression feedback from an avid gamer.

Postby El_honeste » 29 February 2016, 22:31

First off let me start off by saying I'm a guy who tends to 'pirate' games that I am uncertain of their value, because frankly there's is an absolutely astounding lack of demo's being allowed for the public to preview & decide new game titles. I have downloaded Mordheim and I'm in the process of trying it out, if it proves to be worth it I'll buy it so I can experience the full content (patches, multiplayer & who knows what other chaos :D)

Anyways, I felt like giving some feedback as I go along with my experience on this game as the impression is very good and I want it to succeed - or if nothing else, give you as a gaming company something to work with further down the road.

I do hope you're not shy of criticism and I'm trying to be constructive about this, either giving an option or attempting to underline what's troubling me.

So - To the feedback!

I've got some issues about this game, the first and foremost being the learning curve. Honestly, it seems like a fairly straightforward & thus enjoyable game but the lack of any real explanation to core game mechanics as well as for the various ingame icons makes it a bit hard to 'dive into'. Some of it is quite intuitive to understand, for example; I was pondering what this weird currency depicted as green round orbs for leveling active/passive skills were and as I got my first level up it became obviously apparent what it meant :) After writing this I realized some of the icons can be clicked, contrary to the usual style of hovering above icons to reveal text to explain things.

Just after this I was faced in a position with having two of my units inside a building versus a single enemy blockin the entrance doorway, to my dismay I was unable to attack with both of my units at once from this position and was forced to do a flanking maneouvre with one of the troops in order to successfully attack the enemy. This right here does not make sense to me at all, from what I understand so far I can't attack an enemy while being in the 'influence sphere' of one of my allied troops - totally unintuitive (at least to me) and actually made me lose the scenario.

In one of my other warbands I was also 'slushed' on a miscast on a spell which hit my leader for no less than 6,666 damage - also making me lose the scenario. I understand randomness/rng is part of this game but having such harsh penalties for misfires is a bit detrimental and doesn't serve to make the game more hardcore at all - just underlines the fact that it's an rng based game and the only thing you can do in a battle is trying to work around that and attempt to minimize the chance that an action that 'should' be safe to do - doesn't blow up in your face.

I understand that in the table-top version there is a number of these occurences where simple rng can be an incredible influence on whether a battle is won or lost, and it seems to be fine for that version! When thinking about Mordheim, I can't help but feel you should have gone a different route with this as there is a sense of progression here that's not there in the table-top version (other than in tournaments) where a misfire can cause you to lose not just one battle, but render all the forthcoming battles forfeit if you lose some core units or suffer irreperable damage to them.

The voices is another thing that seems out of place, at least for the skaven - To be honest it's like someone who's trying to sound like gollum but falls way short and renders the audial experience inept. I like what you're trying to do here but it's just not there, a much shorter summary vocalized would be a better way to do it, and let the 'audience' read the remainder by themselves.

Another thing is the injuries report, it feels incredible vague to me as a new player and as I'm seeing the injuries after a battle I can't help but think that it will give me some sort of reprise after the listed recovery time is up - after all, it's listed under a tab saying 'permanent injuries' which implies that it's going to have some dastardly effect on my unit forever! If this is temporary, it is one of those things that should be put under a tab called something like 'Temporary injuries' or 'Light wounds' or whatever you imagination can think of when it comes to a flesh wound - Even if it's not it there should definately be a 'tab' for both temporary & permanent injuries just to clear any confusion, but hey maybe I'm the only one thinking this isn't as intuitive as it should be :)

Also, when it says 'Potential counter-attack' what does this mean and how come this doesn't have a % value next to is as most of the other ingame actions do? I'm thinking because of that it's a counter attack incase my own attack does not go through, yet the game does nothing to affirm that apart from trying and (hidden 50% chance of) failing.

Most of these points I'm trying to make here are caused by failing to 'educate' me in how this game actually works . A lot of the mechanics seem outright stupid (such as sphere of influnce around each unit) and I can't help but think you could have done a way better job with this game if you employed competent game testers that are not afraid to give criticism - as most of the time it is required in order to produce something worthwile.

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MasterN
Posts: 82
Joined: 16 January 2016, 10:49

Re: First impression feedback from an avid gamer.

Postby MasterN » 29 February 2016, 23:06

First off let me start off by saying I'm a guy who tends to 'pirate' games that I am uncertain of their value, because frankly there's is an absolutely astounding lack of demo's being allowed for the public to preview & decide new game titles. I have downloaded Mordheim and I'm in the process of trying it out, if it proves to be worth it I'll buy it so I can experience the full content (patches, multiplayer & who knows what other chaos :D)
Yup! Best way in a world without demos.... And with something like Steam it could be sooooooo easy to make demos.... just restrict the progress (for example 10 scenarios for each warband, creation limited to 4 warbands so you can try out each) and then make buying the game like a DLC purchase.

For the rest:

I played the tabletop, bought the game after an hour or so of let's play watching, and felt instantly at home. I can understand how frustrating a lack of tutorials or explanations feels, but then I usually feel very tempted to watch someone else play for a couple of minutes and that mostly solves the issues.

I also had a sense of progression outside tournaments (which were already long gone by the time I started playing) by just playing with my friends. And working around possible issues is one thing that makes it fun for me (for exaple positioning my units in a way that makes it impossible for the opponent to run away even if they fail all alone)... don't know about other people though...

Agree on the skaven way of talking.... but with the recently introduced 50% reduction in loading times, one doesn't have to listen to all of it. The sounds they make in-game is pretty nice though (imo), especially if they fail on some action like climbing.

Agree on the injury report. Mild injuries should be removed after they've healed.

The counter attack thing doesn't have a chance of occuring per se. As long as there are valid action points on the unit that's being attacked, it can always counter-attack 100% of the time. It is the players/AIs choice whether to do so or not. If yes, usual hit calculation + counter malus applies.

El_honeste
Posts: 3
Joined: 29 February 2016, 20:31

Re: First impression feedback from an avid gamer.

Postby El_honeste » 29 February 2016, 23:20

I also had a sense of progression outside tournaments (which were already long gone by the time I started playing) by just playing with my friends. And working around possible issues is one thing that makes it fun for me (for exaple positioning my units in a way that makes it impossible for the opponent to run away even if they fail all alone)... don't know about other people though...
I do enjoy working around these things, game mechanics if you will. The problem I've got with Mordheim is that these 'rules' don't seem to be (at least inutitively) laid in stone and makes me wonder how this 'thing' actually works.
The counter attack thing doesn't have a chance of occuring per se. As long as there are valid action points on the unit that's being attacked, it can always counter-attack 100% of the time. It is the players/AIs choice whether to do so or not. If yes, usual hit calculation + counter malus applies.
Thanks for clearing that up for me, didn't know how it worked untill now :)

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MasterN
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Re: First impression feedback from an avid gamer.

Postby MasterN » 01 March 2016, 00:31

I do enjoy working around these things, game mechanics if you will. The problem I've got with Mordheim is that these 'rules' don't seem to be (at least inutitively) laid in stone and makes me wonder how this 'thing' actually works.

Thanks for clearing that up for me, didn't know how it worked untill now :)
In the true spirit of 'derived game mechanics from personal experience' let me say the following:
The counter thing is based on my experience. I sadly can't give 100% on that as I didn't look it up. But that's what it looks like.

What 'rules' are you refering to?

El_honeste
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Joined: 29 February 2016, 20:31

Re: First impression feedback from an avid gamer.

Postby El_honeste » 01 March 2016, 00:56

Oh, the 'rules' I mentioned is the game mechanics.

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Morjax
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Re: First impression feedback from an avid gamer.

Postby Morjax » 01 March 2016, 20:09

Great thoughts here! It's always interesting to hear a fresh take on the game and people's experiences getting into it. I can't speak to the reasoning behind the influence circles, but it's really not too bad once you get used to it. It tends to dictate the way that you set up ambushes and the terrain you choose to engage on, but it's relatively work-around-able.

Regarding curse chance, that's one of the hard lessons to learn! It gives you your chance to be cursed (which I always try to cast below 20%, and certainly below ~30%), and if you're cursed, there's a number of different options, including insta-gib Tzeench-wrath. This is something like a 1/10 to 1/20 chance in my empirical experience. Casting is risky business for untrained casters!

About counter attacks, I seem to recall there's a skill that allows you a potential counter after dodge, and another that regens red pills after a successful counter. There used to be one that increased your counter chance, but I can'[t recall if that's still in. To my best knowledge, it works like this: An attack comes in. Do you have sufficient red pills (including tiring)? If so roll to counter. If you make the roll (Not sure what the base chance is), you get a 5 sec window to confirm the counter. If not, it fizzles.

Hope that sheds a bit of light on the issue!

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MasterN
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Re: First impression feedback from an avid gamer.

Postby MasterN » 01 March 2016, 23:10

If you make the roll (Not sure what the base chance is), you get a 5 sec window to confirm the counter. If not, it fizzles.
Are you talking about multi player here? I don't recall ever seeing a roll on my counters and there's no time window in PvAi...

I have never seen the rules broken so far. Just the AI screwing up :lol:

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Morjax
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Re: First impression feedback from an avid gamer.

Postby Morjax » 02 March 2016, 17:57

If you make the roll (Not sure what the base chance is), you get a 5 sec window to confirm the counter. If not, it fizzles.
Are you talking about multi player here? I don't recall ever seeing a roll on my counters and there's no time window in PvAi...

I have never seen the rules broken so far. Just the AI screwing up :lol:
It may be that's only a thing in MP, but I thought it was true everywhere. I'll have to try and keep an eye out for this going forward.


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