Marked for death

Share your thoughts and ideas about Mordheim: City of the Damned
Nightwalker
Posts: 26
Joined: 28 January 2016, 23:16

Re: Marked for death

Postby Nightwalker » 28 February 2016, 00:19

Pickpocket option is actually not a bad idea...instead of an attack the character gets the option to pickpocket
Good thinking Hety

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Morjax
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Re: Marked for death

Postby Morjax » 01 March 2016, 20:34

in another mission I killed leader 1 hero 2 henchmen and 1 impressive and the enemy was left with 1 augur and 1 henchman the route test succeeded and i was able to loot the entire instance...So spare me with tactical-strategic...It s a die roll. Nothing more nothing less
Sometimes a pivotal hit that takes out your leader and forces you to route can boil down to a single lucky die roll too.

I understand that it's some frustrating blue balls when you've successfully killed the appropriate units, and fail to get the trinket that's RIGHT in front of your guy, but I'm a firm believer that the optional objectives should not be a gimme (considering the benefits are so high). You can certainly argue (and have a valid point) that you should loose the optional due to it's difficulty, and not due to a game mechanic (0 morale forces instant loss), but in my mind, the end result is that I achieve the optional objectives about as often as I would expect to, due to one cause or another.

That's my $0.02, at least.

Cheers,
~Morjax

Nightwalker
Posts: 26
Joined: 28 January 2016, 23:16

Re: Marked for death

Postby Nightwalker » 02 March 2016, 07:15

You understand nothing....
We have been waiting for decades a gem-game like mordheim and the final result sucks because the devs think that they will take over the MMO world with a low budget TBS game...It ain t happening. And the end result is a grind fest like any other multiplayer game out there.
And cut the crap about difficulty. Mordheim is not a difficult game. It s just boring....The gameplay is far from boring...but even doing the exact same thing over and over...and over again IS.

thinking how to loot the trinkets without routing IS NEITHER strategic not tactical.

Tactical is a formation, setting an ambush, etc

So keep the words of encouragment to yourself.

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MasterN
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Re: Marked for death

Postby MasterN » 02 March 2016, 08:26

You understand nothing....
We have been waiting for decades a gem-game like mordheim and the final result sucks because the devs think that they will take over the MMO world with a low budget TBS game...It ain t happening.
Waiting for a decade makes it sound like you played the tabletop... did you?

A major part of why I like the game is because of its similarity to the original. And that was like this (for me):
- take your figures and sheets and dice (and paints and brushes and lots of other stuff)
- meet up at a friends place
- set up the table
- play scenarios
(- and after that build terrain pieces color the figures and so on)

Apart from the "creating" aspect, the game plays exactly the same. BUT we also get to play a campaign here...

The devs don't think of taking over the MMO world. How did you make that out?
And the end result is a grind fest like any other multiplayer game out there.
And cut the crap about difficulty. Mordheim is not a difficult game. It s just boring....The gameplay is far from boring...but even doing the exact same thing over and over...and over again IS.

thinking how to loot the trinkets without routing IS NEITHER strategic not tactical.

Tactical is a formation, setting an ambush, etc

So keep the words of encouragment to yourself.
Look at wikipedias definition:
From Strategy:
Strategy is a high level plan to achieve one or more goals under conditions of uncertainty.
From Tactic:
Strategy is undertaken before the battle. Tactics are implemented during battle.
The terms tactic and strategy are often confused: tactics are the actual means used to gain an objective, while strategy is the overall campaign plan, which may involve complex operational patterns, activity, and decision-making that lead to tactical execution.
That's exactly what you do in Mordheim....

Nightwalker
Posts: 26
Joined: 28 January 2016, 23:16

Re: Marked for death

Postby Nightwalker » 02 March 2016, 12:43

First of all the original game had 100 scenarios not 3
you don t lose mission objectives for not looting the corpse in the tabletop.
the tabletop had 0 grinding. You could go fright into action
Strategy is undertaken before the battle. Tactics are implemented during battle.
The grinding part of the game is identical to other MMOs

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MasterN
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Re: Marked for death

Postby MasterN » 03 March 2016, 07:48

If the actual sequences of each scenatio were the same, I would agree with you. As you need to think about the terrain and your positioning (in 90% of the cases) I do not consider it grinding, because it's exactly that what's adding the variety to the missions.

You appareantly do not have a concept of the difference of the required amount of effort necessary to imprement a scenario in the PC game in contrast to the tabletop.
In addition to that: How many years did GW have to come up with all those scenarios? Many (not most) scenarios would require special maps, and then certainly more than one to stop people complaining, and many of the scenarios had an entirely different setting (desert, djungle... (totally unnecessary for now)).

For reference... In the opening post of my other thread (viewtopic.php?f=65&t=2037) I lay out an example for a major content update. I also sooner or later expect more scenarios and I'm sure they'll be delivered.... in time.


Having the mission objective be too easy would definitely make it boring really fast.

btw.. I'm not trying to motivate you or anything... If you're bored, then be that... But please don't assume that everybody else is as well by default.

Nightwalker
Posts: 26
Joined: 28 January 2016, 23:16

Re: Marked for death

Postby Nightwalker » 04 March 2016, 20:02

Having the mission objective be too easy would definitely make it boring really fast.
For 19878th time...

It s not "difficult" it s RANDOM
Do you even understand the difference?

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MasterN
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Re: Marked for death

Postby MasterN » 04 March 2016, 22:24

OK... This is going nowhere. (I'm not going to cross-reference from other threads...)


For terminology (just mentioned so we can make sure to mean the same things):
- Any solution (functional or not) in accordance to the games mechanics with the goal of achieving primary/secondary objectives constitute as Strategy/Tactics.
- Grinding consists of monotonous repetitive activities.
- "Random": Events have an uncertain outcome independent of any taken action/s.

I also won't make a comparison between the amounts of content of the tabletop and the PC-version (as long as Rogue Factor doesn't go bankrupt, more scenarios will come).


The following quotes are out of order but sorted by context:
1st mission
I kill the leader amd then the marked for death hero and minor victory is imminent

2nd mission
Leader and hero are next to each other
I kill the hero but his body drops inside the leader's zone so i can t loot it
Once the leader is dead
again instant minor victory

in another mission I killed leader 1 hero 2 henchmen and 1 impressive and the enemy was left with 1 augur and 1 henchman the route test succeeded and i was able to loot the entire instance...

I ve lost many objectives over silly gamey non strategic reasons

thinking how to loot the trinkets without routing IS NEITHER strategic not tactical.
Coming up with a way to loot the trinkets without an enemy rout is by definition strategic and tactical.

The best way to deal with "the mechanics of "Marked for Death" won't change" is to avoid taking such missions and i believe everyone avoids "crush their will" quests too at least up until u get some movement boosts from skills etc. All these make the game monotonous and grind fest(hence this thread) which is lame because other than these silly strategicless and pointless mechanics the game is outstanding...

oh and i m complaining because i don t like die rolls I m ok with my attack missing...I m not ok because the round ended before i get the chance to loot

And cut the crap about difficulty. Mordheim is not a difficult game. It s just boring....The gameplay is far from boring...but even doing the exact same thing over and over...and over again IS.

It s not "difficult" it s RANDOM
Well there are "other ways" to override bad game mechanics and since i know that i will not overdo it nor i tend to play pvp I m fine with it. It s just such an epic fail when a game forces you to follow such methods not because it s difficult but because it becomes frustrating and boring not to. The game mechanics may be "given" but my will to play for fun and not for frustration is bigger.

I simply play a mission legit and if i lose the objective over some stupid gamey rule...It s tweaking time!
So you claim (in short):
- The mechanics are pointless, silly and stupid
- You won't overdo it, because thinking up strategies to solve the "bad" game mechanics is boring and frustrating


I still don't understand where you're going with all this.
If you dismiss the mechanics that add variety as bad, you are of course only left with a repetitive grind. But nobody will ever be able to help you with that.
What makes it fun for you? Mindlessly going after every enemy unit in sight? Because that's what it sounds like.

The only aspect you've ever mentioned (which you don't like), that carries a roll with it, is the rout test. And it happens predictably (not the outcome, but its appearance).

Nightwalker
Posts: 26
Joined: 28 January 2016, 23:16

Re: Marked for death

Postby Nightwalker » 05 March 2016, 17:15

"Coming up with a way to loot the trinkets without an enemy rout is by definition strategic and tactical."

You honestly believe that?
In some missions it s impossible because the wrong guy spawned near your guys....therefore IT S RANDOM!!! Since the game R-A-N-D-O-M-L-Y positions the NPCs

Due to the charging tactics of the AI (which actually makes the game easy) You can t just ignore that guy. You HAVE TO kill him Once dead you can t loot the other because of instant rout

CONGRATS!!! You E-A-S-I-L-Y did the mission but you missed the objective. Np problem....You can G-R-I-N-D another one

Is it so difficult to comprehend?


one easy fix would be to reward more xp on a win...The alt objective gives more rewards anyway....

why don t you agree to the pickpocket option? that s even more tactical. Having to spend all your action point to pickpocket might mean win or lose in this game.
There you go...I m not dismissing the mechanics. I m just asking for a pickpocket option to loot before rout.

If you didn t have "The game is awesome" mentality you might see the point...

Nightwalker
Posts: 26
Joined: 28 January 2016, 23:16

Re: Marked for death

Postby Nightwalker » 05 March 2016, 17:17

CONGRATS!!! You E-A-S-I-L-Y did the mission but you missed the objective

That s like some surgeons say "The operation was a success but the patient died"\!!!


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