[Poll] Please implement an option to reset Veteran Skills

General discussion with other Mordheim: City of the Damned players.

Should it be possible to reset Veteran Skills? ( NOT Char Skills or Stat Points!!! )

Yes
177
69%
No
58
23%
I don't care
22
9%
 
Total votes: 257
Arganan
Posts: 54
Joined: 14 February 2015, 13:38

Re: [Poll] Please implement an option to reset Veteran Skill

Postby Arganan » 15 January 2016, 13:25

.

When i consider reset of veteran skills, i would also use the similar kind of arguments even in a much much lighter form, because it can be seen also a very small step in this direction. Because the choices even for veteran have influence, even if it is a minor, on your warband development. So it is part of mortheim for my understanding.
Logical Fallacy - Slippery Slope

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
Thank you for teaching me new vocabulary. Even if they don't make sence in this context, without any proof or argumentation. Some one in this thread sayed:
. . .You might want to consider actually making sure you have half a clue as to what is been talked about before commenting......
So you should behave like the one syed this befor you answer my posts. The other ones got the clue and answered accordingly. but i will explain my arguments and the result of my posts:

The argument take one core idea of mordheim into account: "every choice(step) you made in mordheim is final" and combine it with the principle "be consequently". When you make a rule and define thousands of exceptions afterwards, how much worth is the rule then? Veteran skills represents meta skills of your warband, like having good relations to typical vendors or having good teachers etc. Resetting means. Hey now i don't have good relations to a vendor, now I can trade very good. So for me veteran skills are part of mordheim so the core idea should apply. So saving/reload and resetting are exceptions that works against the core idea, so i used them as similar arguments to underline the direction.

The question is, how much harms the reset of the veterans skill the core idea? only minor. On the other side how much harms the missing reset loyal players who invest hundred of hours in one warband. So beneathar gives a very good argument to vote for yes:
Because resetting those Veteran skill wouldn't harm anyone . . .

annother argument in this context is the intention of the veteran system: "honoring loyal player". These both argument made me revoting for yes.
. . .i can understand your point of view so i revote and say "yes".
in the meantime i had annother idea. What about of relearning veteran skills? so it takes x days to relearn a veteran skill. This takes also the representation of meth skills of your warband into account. it takes time to get good connections to typical vendors or in finding good teachers.

drenzul
Posts: 187
Joined: 29 September 2015, 12:19

Re: [Poll] Please implement an option to reset Veteran Skill

Postby drenzul » 15 January 2016, 13:50

" because it can be seen also a very small step in this direction"

Its completely applicable. Saying this is a step towards fluffyness doesn't mean it will make the game fluffy. Implying it does is slippery slope.

"So you should behave like the one syed this befor you answer my posts. The other ones got the clue and answered accordingly. but i will explain my arguments and the result of my posts:"

This wasn't actually meant nastily, its just you look like a bit of an idiot when you make comments like the last one which clearly don't make any sense because you are talking about something completely different. Its annoying and a waste of time for both you and everyone reading it otherwise.

"The question is, how much harms the reset of the veterans skill the core idea? only minor. On the other side how much harms the missing reset loyal players who invest hundred of hours in one warband. So beneathar gives a very good argument to vote for yes:"
You've yet to show how it harms the core idea at all. The only thing this would do is save players from having to restart their warband from scratch for no good reason. That has nothing to do with the spirit of the game, its preventing players from having to do boring things they have already done once over and over.

If a player is thinking, well, I screwed up and the very beginning, I need to restart, it takes 100s of hours... oh sod it, I'll go start up game XXXXX instead....

"in the meantime i had annother idea. What about of relearning veteran skills? so it takes x days to relearn a veteran skill. This takes also the representation of meth skills of your warband into account. it takes time to get good connections to typical vendors or in finding good teachers."

I've no objection to a time penalty with re-learning them. A suitable gold/time or even wrydstone penalty could be applied for doing it. The point is it needs to be do-able without having to start again from nothing.
As it is some of the top formulas take literally 100s of hours to get (apart from on the war-bands that don't need them apparently!) re-rolling isn't a feasible option once you reach a certain stage.

Beneathar
Posts: 17
Joined: 14 November 2015, 18:03

Re: [Poll] Please implement an option to reset Veteran Skill

Postby Beneathar » 15 January 2016, 15:48

Veteran skills represents meta skills of your warband, like having good relations to typical vendors or having good teachers etc. Resetting means. Hey now i don't have good relations to a vendor, now I can trade very good. So for me veteran skills are part of mordheim so the core idea should apply. So saving/reload and resetting are exceptions that works against the core idea, so i used them as similar arguments to underline the direction.
I don't think it would be a problem lorewise to have changes here.

You don't have eternal contracts with merchants normally, you can always change those (and even merchants don't live for eternity in Mordheim)

You also wouldnt have the same scouts all the time, and your leaders and impressives can change as well, so why should they always demand less money after a victory? that could change without problems.

Even other skills: why should you always have a super efficient skill teacher around, wich saves you costs by learning skills?

All of those skills are properly okay with changes, because none of them contains something wich would be logically irreversible.

In fact nothing is really irreversible, as you can simply disband your whole warband and start from beginning on with all your runes, reputation, veteran skills, equipment and Money. So you can (wich isnt very logical as well) put all your wealth and earnings into a completely new warband. And thats absolutely okay for the playerbase, and for me too.

Veteran skills also have low effects, and i already mention the punishment of hundreds of hours played for nothing just for changing the skills is not a valid optin and takes, in my opinion, the rule of everything is final way too far. but as you mentioned, its just minor, and you agreed on that, so nevermind.

DocFumble

Re: [Poll] Please implement an option to reset Veteran Skill

Postby DocFumble » 03 February 2016, 14:50

Will the reset of the veteran skill will delete the bonus you earned in the early game ?

I think the possibility to reset should be unfair.
For example, you get free heavy armors with the armorer contact veteran skill.
Once your full team is equipped you can change for another skill, and actually profit for the bonus of both skill.
This is cheat ^^

Otherwise, to be fair, the reset should instantly destroy all your free items, or cancel the experience or magic stone bonuses you get with the explorer skill.
So, for me this is a no.

If you need more veteran skills, you have to farm for achievements to get new veteran experience points to spend. I think it's the best solution.

drenzul
Posts: 187
Joined: 29 September 2015, 12:19

Re: [Poll] Please implement an option to reset Veteran Skill

Postby drenzul » 04 February 2016, 14:46

@DocFumble
If it was going to do that, then it should also do the reverse, aka compensate you for what you would of had if you had purchased the new veteran skill originally.

Of course that wouldn't make any sense either, much like your suggestion, you gain the benefit from the skill when you have it active. So long as you don't have more than the total active, there shouldn't be a problem.

Also veteran skill points are limited to 10, so if you already have 10, there is no way to get anymore. I'm at rank 11 but still only have 10 points.

User avatar
Frankie
Posts: 41
Joined: 09 March 2016, 19:54
Location: Hungary

Re: [Poll] Please implement an option to reset Veteran Skill

Postby Frankie » 09 March 2016, 20:24

Hi!

I've just came across this thread after having posted one of my own that might relate to this one.

viewtopic.php?f=65&t=2176

I know you suggest veteran skills to be reset, and I agree there should be an option for a bit of flexibility -- if earned. I'm thinking wouldn't it be a nice touch to the game if you could get special items on let's say Deadly scenarios to get the option to respec? Your ideas?

Telamoont
Posts: 3
Joined: 19 May 2016, 18:43

Re: [Poll] Please implement an option to reset Veteran Skill

Postby Telamoont » 21 May 2016, 20:51

My very first warband that I'm playing since early early acess has the same problem. Almost 300 hours invested. It's not reasonable discard it because I feel the need to change the veteran skills.

I think it's pretty much fair have the reset option in veteran skills. Voted YES.

Karond
Posts: 12
Joined: 28 April 2016, 19:39

Re: [Poll] Please implement an option to reset Veteran Skill

Postby Karond » 22 May 2016, 07:52

and has nothing to do with difficulty,
It has everything to do with difficulty, that's the entire basis for a change. If one could respec, then one could get all the skills that benefit you the most in the beginning then switch to more useful ones later on making the game easier.

I don't know why this would come in the way of you getting your "perfect warband". Ultimately, all veteran skills are just about gold more or less. In the end you've multiple purple items of each kind, a ridicilious amount of gold and absolutely no use for any veteran skill. Even the skill you want, explorer, is just a time-saving skill allowing you to get maybe the same amount of wyrdstone in 40 missions as one gets in 50.

Speaking of veteran skills, there is one particular skill that I think is missing that would be rather nice; a percentage decrease on the shipment requests. Say, 10/20%. Would help the multiplayer leagues a lot.

Telamoont
Posts: 3
Joined: 19 May 2016, 18:43

Re: [Poll] Please implement an option to reset Veteran Skill

Postby Telamoont » 05 June 2016, 05:42

and has nothing to do with difficulty,
It has everything to do with difficulty, that's the entire basis for a change. If one could respec, then one could get all the skills that benefit you the most in the beginning then switch to more useful ones later on making the game easier.
It's more a perfecionism thing, not a unreasonable advantage. I'm sure this will not break the game.


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