Secondary weapon strategy

General discussion with other Mordheim: City of the Damned players.
Sjaugust1
Posts: 30
Joined: 15 October 2015, 00:25

Secondary weapon strategy

Postby Sjaugust1 » 16 October 2015, 16:00

Is there an effective build for using a ranged secondary backup weapon on a mostly melee character? Or would that be counter productive and inefficient?

Flipping things around what's the better choice of a secondary melee weapon for a marksmen? I've been stuck with a basic dagger as it seems defensively superior but at the same time it's a boring ass dagger. Going double daggers kinda sucks too with such a high damage penalty.

Astralwyrm
Posts: 256
Joined: 08 July 2015, 11:47

Re: Secondary weapon strategy

Postby Astralwyrm » 16 October 2015, 17:29

I don't think there is a particularly big incentive to worry too much about secondary weapons. A secondary range weapon could help when you need to deal damage from out of reach so long as you can disengage. Do you have to pay to reload if you switch weapons; anyone know?

A good secondary weapon for ranged units is a club. Since your likely to have low acc the + acc will help. High Agi run with nothing in the offhand for + dodge or if low Agi run a shield for increased melee resistance.

Sjaugust1
Posts: 30
Joined: 15 October 2015, 00:25

Re: Secondary weapon strategy

Postby Sjaugust1 » 16 October 2015, 19:08

I think you do need to pay to reload. I've found that having a way to attack from any distance is incredibly useful. And being able to swap from melee to ranged is just good utility.
Anyway figured I'd give my melee fighters something heavy for ranged emergencies in efforts to counter their low ballistics and agility.

Would a hammer increase the odds of my marksmen surviving a 1v1 encounter should I go for increased dodge and parry to avoid gitting hit in the first place? I know its inevitable that a marksmen will get caught. Mine frequently spawns in separated from everyone else.

illathid
Posts: 4
Joined: 05 October 2015, 22:16

Re: Secondary weapon strategy

Postby illathid » 21 October 2015, 00:49

I actually just read an interesting strategy:
For your ranged characters, put dual daggers/maces in their main slot. They'll start higher in the initiative and will be better prepped if the enemy can get into melee range before you act.

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crimsonsun
Posts: 187
Joined: 28 November 2014, 02:43

Re: Secondary weapon strategy

Postby crimsonsun » 21 October 2015, 09:10

Personally Henchies with ranged I build with I boosting weapons in the primary slot, while ones that are melee focused wont worry about a secondary weapon set, on the other hand Heroes I always equip with two weapon set ups normally melee and ranged but sometimes melee, melee with a different focus. Heroes have enough OP and SP that switching weapons can for example allow you to shoot before you charge or place a defensive combat stance upon your fighter following shooting during your activation. Most importantly it provides those heroes more tactical options, I don't think I've ever used my ranged option on my Black Skaven but knowing I can if I get stuck in a position where I can't get to a combat is never a bad thing. With Henchman or heroes built with adaptability in mind I like to combine quick swap and rapid reload, for reduced weapon swapping cost and reduced/free first reload saving a henchman 2 SP straight up not bad at all! Heroes can achieve masteries in these making dual weapon builds to be flexible with next to no penalties. The advantage of saving these Key SP and OP for Masteries is it allows for far more complex action chains as well as the activation of abilities/stances/active skills.

Quick Swap is something I feel Wizards could really benefit from sadly being a passive skill means its not something they are likely to have room for as competition is seriously high for those active skill slots.
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MiniaAr
Posts: 110
Joined: 17 October 2014, 08:41

Re: Secondary weapon strategy

Postby MiniaAr » 21 October 2015, 09:59

However I think I read that putting secondary weapons to all your units also increase your rating and thus the difficulty of missions, when you won't really need those secondary weapons.

Therefore, I'm kind of not convinced that secondary weapons should be given freely. Sure, I'll give a dagger to my ranged henchmen, and probably have one hero with both range and melee weapons, but the rest of them should focus on only one weapon proficiency.

An example for skavens:
  • Leader only with Weeping Blades
  • Night Runner with both Warlock Pistols and Fighting Claws
  • Black Skaven with only Helberd or alternatively Spear and Shield. (I'm not sure here).
  • Sorcerer with Warlock Pistols (and maybe a staff)
  • Warpguards: I won't give them range weapons, don't see the need. They're the most tanky characters you have.
  • Verminkin: either dual wield, maybe one mainly ranged with Shurikens. If not, only one set of weapons.

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crimsonsun
Posts: 187
Joined: 28 November 2014, 02:43

Re: Secondary weapon strategy

Postby crimsonsun » 21 October 2015, 12:09

Only thing I would change is the automatic selection of warplocks pistols of Shurikens for Skaven heroes, as I feel this choice is very build specific, with high Accuracy loaded high damage/heavily modified attacks coming via the warplocks or if the hero has very little in the way of ranged development they'd be far better off with Shurikens as it enables far more shots or more critically the ability to fire several shots and then place over watch down. Where as a Warplock user wont be able to get a 3rd shot naturally until rank 10.

Warpguard's I don't give them missile weapons as you said and also because ranged weapons are something that take advantage of being elevated something which Armour warp guards should be careful of not only because they can't climb for shit, but also because they are slow (especially in skaven terms) so committing to scaling a building is going to stop that fighter from being anywhere else for several rounds.

Black Skaven Sword and Shield baby build for criticals :D

Honestly I couldn't give a damn if a second weapon counts against your rating, seriously we are talking minute amounts even for magical gear, now obviously depending on your experience level the games supposed hard core nature vanishes very quickly with experience and as such I don't even consider fights that aren't at least Brutal difficulty, most games I select are Deadly instead and I'm not even noticing the AI buffs at all in terms of fighter verses fighter conflict. While I do have a good amount of play time down now, despite what may be said I do not consider myself a 'good' player nor do I worry about being competitive but I do need to play at a difficulty level I feel is going to engage my brain otherwise what's the point, anyway this ramble was basically to saying the Rating difference applied isn't enough to make it something you should be concerned with in my opinion.

crimsonsun
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MiniaAr
Posts: 110
Joined: 17 October 2014, 08:41

Re: Secondary weapon strategy

Postby MiniaAr » 21 October 2015, 12:42

Oh I understand your point then.
I totally agree with experience reducing the overall difficulty. I myself can win Normal missions without trouble at this point, and I play mostly hard ones.
But for a beginner, a good advice could be not to go overboard with secondary weapons. (which you favor as well). :)

Could you tell us more about your builds (skills to take, weapons to equip, stats to increase)?
dodge build
crit build
range build (warlock/shuriken)

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crimsonsun
Posts: 187
Joined: 28 November 2014, 02:43

Re: Secondary weapon strategy

Postby crimsonsun » 21 October 2015, 13:30

I' ve actually posted a thread on my warband on a blood bowl forum this morning but overall build wise you don't really have wrong options just different ones. One thing I feel I should mention is that originally I was all about Warp Guards and verminkin were meh, but now I'll always stack my warband at least 3-2 in favour of the verminkin as they provide so much more in terms of tactical options.

My vermin are build with Accuracy 9 for head shot, solid Agility for dodge and then a good even spread, they don't really have a characteristic you can afford to ignore so I mix between WS & BS while making sure I have all mental stats evenly distributed. Along Side head shot I like Swarm, and quick draw which combine to provide a real all rounder.

Warp Guards are Tanks build on web of steel, high melee resistance, and heavy armour prof, though I feel there is viability in a Heavy Hitting Warp Guard opposed to a tank but I've not got room to play around with that build atm.

Night Runners - Ive figured out its possible to get a 28mv charge from these guys which should be combined with free jumps and swift charge for maximum OP reduction and damage inflicting ability. As a back up I take Head shot with warp lock pistols and quick draw once again. This build isn't specifically powerful but is more a curiosity of how fast can I make this rat though it requires rank10 to get there.

Black rats, critical focused stacking melee resistance debuffs, increasing critical chance, with web of steel, swift counter, supported by order, battle plan and with Empowering shields. even at rank 6 I can generate 6 attacks each from these monsters with stacking critical chance it becomes brutal.

Sorcerer - My main leader is a Sorcerer I dislike Assassins as leaders and the Sorcerer needs a 2nd role to make it less prone to blowing up however at current rank I can't get him up to the required Leadership 15 for mastery so he's whole development is on hold rank six and pending with skill/spell points waiting. Essentially supporting magic/debuffs with leadership abilities is a win win, they are also far better in terms of morale and leadership than Assassins and also have don't the issue of wanting to be in combat in order to get the most from them. Order, Battle Tactics allow interaction without spamming magic but together with the magical buffs its a very strong support unit.

Impressive is maxed intelligence, armour of intelligence, then frenzy mastery, fatality, deep wounds, mighty charge, anticipation, demoralise, insult, introspection.
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MiniaAr
Posts: 110
Joined: 17 October 2014, 08:41

Re: Secondary weapon strategy

Postby MiniaAr » 21 October 2015, 15:03

Thank you a lot for your input.

What weapons do you give your Warpguards and Verminkins? Spear and Shields for the WG, Dual Wield for the VK?
I really like the idea of a heavy hitting warpguard, he should be spec in strength, WS and what skills would you recommend?

Also, how do you get to make your sorcerer as leader? :o


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